Need tips for airbrushing

[team3six]

OK, I have a body that I hope will turn out like it should.
I need advise though.
1. do I need to dilute and or thin the faskolor paints. If so what do I use?
2. can I mix faskolor paints to get a color I need?
3. some things I am gonna need to brush on, it is intricate small little things so can faskolor be brushed on and what brushes are recomended?

[DriftIsTheWayRS4]

I delude my fascolor paints simply with water. get it of a consistancy where if you'd dip in a popsicle stick or anything i'd be we enough that the paint slides off before it can drip off the stick. and yes you can mix any paints of the same brand or type to get your desired color. as for paintbrushes just get what you think is thin and fine enough for your application

[PyroMike]

1. do I need to dilute and or thin the faskolor paints. If so what do I use?
You don't need to thin the paint, but if you want to or if you are doing fine detail then you can use Windex or alcohol. The alcohol will dry faster so it will make it easier to do detail work. You could use water, but the other two will hold the paint better (paint will be smother flowing)
2. can I mix faskolor paints to get a color I need?
Yes you can mix faskolor paints together, you can mix almost any kind of paint out there as long as it is the same type of paint (i.e. acrylic with acrylic, lacquer with lacquer, or enamel with enamel [you should not use enamel with lexan])
3. some things I am gonna need to brush on, it is intricate small little things so can faskolor be brushed on and what brushes are recomended?
Yes you can brush it on, you could use a 3/0 (000), 2/0 (00), or 0. The 3/0 or 000 is smaller then a 2/0 or 0. If you can find them at all craft stores, or even wal-mart.

[team3six]

OK, Drift...... "get it of a consistancy where if you'd dip in a popsicle stick or anything i'd be we enough that the paint slides off before it can drip off the stick." Huh? can you re explain that one.

Mike...... Windex with Alcohol in it? and or (Rubbing) Alcohol? and how do I determin how thin or thick the viscocity should be. I am working with a .46 tip, a .60 tip and a 1.0 tip
to clarify, if I am doing really small detailed work I most likely will be using the .46 tip so I imagine the paint will have a harder time passing the hole so my guess is that it needs to be diluted a bit, but diluting the paint to me only seems like it would also thin the color out. I am going to practice this stuff before I get going, but I want to have the paint settings right. here I am going to post what i am planning on doing, against my own judgement I hope someone won't be a hack and steal the idea. this should show you what I am trying to acomplish, so this is a hard project for my first big show. By the way, yes it is based on the one that was posted in the paint comp. I am going all out on detail for the realism down to the rust and faded paint to bullet holes
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e276/storm_in027/untitled5.jpg

[DriftIsTheWayRS4]

make it easy, print the picture and glue it to the inside with lexan picture glue.


conistancy - if its gooey when you take a popsicle stick or a cue tip (without the fuzzyness) out of the paint it will have paint on it and the paint will drip, as you pick it up it shouldnt drip cause the paint should all run off the popsicle stick or cue tip before you take it completely out of the jar. its more a watery consistancy so it never cloggs the airbrush, but then again dont overdo it or it'll bead badly.

-Matt

[PyroMike]

You can use Windex or rubbing alcohol to thin the paint. For the windex use the blue colored one (It won't change the color of the paint, and it will make your whites brighter). You can mix the windex with the alcohol (the alcohol will get some of the bubbles out of the windex). A good thinning ratio to start at is a 2 parts paint to 3 parts thinner or you could use a 50/50 mix of paint to thinner. When you thin the paint you are trying to get paint as thin as water. Yes the paint will beharder to spray through the .46 tip that is why you thin the paint.
"diluting the paint to me only seems like it would also thin the color out"
It won't thin the color, just make it where you will need more then one layer of paint to get what you are looking for (it should take 3 or more layers in the first place).
Also the key is to pace your self, the slower the better.

[team3six]

OK, guys thanks for that, now another question. this is a single action airbrush. I know, I know I purchase a starter just to begin with. if you must know it is an Aztek A2705 with the plastic tips. I know they may not last very long, well I asure they won't. but I figure don't invest in the big guns till I learn to hold one. It says I can use this with an air compressor or with the air cans. Did I screw up buying this if it is the can that I am using for the air? Or am I in for a big suprise of stupidity.

[PyroMike]

The tip can last a long time if you take care of them. Don't expect great detail out of it as the 270 is more for genral purspose covarage (larger areas), and you won't have the control as if it were a dual action brush. It will spray good for larger areas, but not so good for detail (like you rust, shadows, or other fine detail). I know it will do fine as I have one that I use for models to spray smaller parts (like seats, dashborads, etc. but not much bigger then that).
You could have got a Paasche VL or a Iwata Revolution for around 60-70 dollors, but I know that the 270 is cheaper then those. You can use it with a can, or air compressor (there should be an adoptor for the compressor).

What will you be useing for air? (compressor or caned air)

[team3six]

ahhh its caned air, but just to remind you it comes with 3 tips that are adjustable tips, you just have to stop painting to adjust the spray and the picture in the box shows a line as thin as 1/8th inch for the smaller tip and a 1/2 inch for the larger tip so I figure that with a brush I can get the fine detail and then use the smaller tip for the shading to give it the texture I want. I am getting a ton of paint in, and soon i will practice. if it is a pain in the ass and I dont get the desired effect. I will purchase a better one for sure. Ohh and I have 1 can for now, just to practice with it comes with an adapter to hook up to a compressor.
I do plan on getting a much better gun. this was just for play. probably the purpose i am using it for will not work, Ohh well

[PyroMike]

What I ment by you won't have the control of a dubble action brush is with a single action if you don't have a good aim it will show (can't just turn the air on then the paint). Cans will give you a problem because they very in air pressure while you spray.
Remeber it is for fun, and pratice. Then once your good then you can get serious. :)

[kropy]

Keep the can of air in some warm water, This will help with keeping the pressure even

[team3six]

well, I purchased this aztek for nothing except I suppose to practice with, I am gonna just go an buy a better airbrush double action kit, I need something that I can adjust the tip for pin line stream. but I have been buying the pactra paints in the jars, and the faskolor paints in the bottle. Now what you are telling me is to use windex w/ alcohol in it or rubbing alcohol to cut it into a more liquified state. but today I was told that the application will only work on the faskolor and not the pactra because the fomula of the pactra is more of an oil base type paint and I would have to cut it with thinner? So here is what I need.....
1. In the range of between $50.00 and $100.00 what is the best airbrush kit to look at for the job I am looking to do (see above picture for referance), Please post a link to anything so I can see what it is I am looking for.
2. The same question for a compressor, I live in an apartment so the point of having a moisture collector is really not an issue and I will be painting in a booth indoors with a evacuation system.
3. what is the deal with the paints and the mixture. and if different for the different paints what mixture am I trying to achieve for each.
thanks, Norm

[davecnitrors4]

Iwata Revolution HPC for the brush. I have a Thayer Chandler Vega 2000, and it's so-so.
Get a filter regulator on the compressor, it's a must.
Canned air is too low pressure/low volume to really spray with well an airbrush. The small compressor is the way to go.

[team3six]

Ohhh, I am not going to use the can. I am getting a compressor. I just need the names so I can look into what to buy.

[PyroMike]

"Now what you are telling me is to use windex w/ alcohol in it or rubbing alcohol to cut it into a more liquified state. but today I was told that the application will only work on the faskolor and not the pactra because the fomula of the pactra is more of an oil base type paint and I would have to cut it with thinner?"
You can use windex or rubbing alcohol (alcohol may cause tip dry, so add some water to help keep it from drying too fast) or you can make a mix of 50/50 alcohol/windex. As for the pactra paint they have two types acrylic, and lacquer. Acrylic is water based, and lacquer is oil based. To thin lacquer paints, you will need lacquer thinner. Testors (pactra) makes good lacquer thinner.

[kropy]

The Parma one is pretty good & quiet, That's the one I started off using.

[tkcustoms]

Norm, for detail work like the pinup that you want to do I would recommend a gravity feed airbrush. Reason? you can operate with much lower pressure than is required by a siphon feed brush, this will give you better control. A great reasonably priced brush is the Richpen Apollo 113c. This brush has a .3mm tip and is about as fine as you'd ever need for R/C stuff. that is the brush that I used for the skull on my AD2 body and the body I recently posted in the "largest cutom paint" thread. It can be found for around 120.00 at bearair.com and you might find it cheaper on ebay.

I also prefer solvent based paint such as Spaztix and Pactra lacquers for detail as they can be thinned to give more delicate detail. Both the Spaztix and the Pactra lacquers can be thinned with a high quality laquer thinner (not the stuff you get at Home Depot), Pactra thinner works well as mentioned above. Water based paints have there place, just not in my shop.

The biggest thing is practice, you've set yourself a pretty high goal as a starter project. Don't get discouraged and keep a positive outlook even when things go to hell.

[team3six]

cool, Thanks TK. Ok I also found an airbrush simular to what you are explaining and it is also a gravity feed along with an air compressor w/ a moisture jar and adjustable pressure valve and stencils to do flames and skulls kinda like you do at www.eastwood.com (http://www.eastwood.com/)
A friend of mine recomended it to me today because he has one as well. It is an Iwata kit for $399.00 and even comes with a 12 pack of auto body airbrush paints. But I will check into what you offer for an idea. And I think you are right about the highly detailed body for my first one. so I believe I will be trying to find something easier to do till I feel comfortable enough to step into the ring.

[PyroMike]

Norm, I'll save you some time.
here is a link to bear air: Bear Air (http://www.bearair.com/default.asp)
And here is the brush on bear air: Rich Pen 113c (http://www.bearair.com/prodinfo.asp?number=100301)

[team3six]

Thanks Mike, It is out of stock though. I have been looking for it

[PyroMike]

You can also look at this one Peak C-5 Gravity Feed Airbrush (http://www.bearair.com/prodinfo.asp?number=100320)
or this one Grex Genesis.XG (http://www.bearair.com/prodinfo.asp?number=100348)
I don't know how good they are. I also don't know what hose will work for them. (I think this one will work for the peak air hose (http://www.bearair.com/prodinfo.asp?number=110879) )

[team3six]

Good looking out there Pyro, That genisis, looks pretty nice and has all the features too.

[team3six]

OK, now I am pretty much going to get the Apollo 113c Richpen, but the question is. there are all kinds of Aircompressors out there. I went and purchased the Testors Mini Blue Compressor because it said it delivers 35 PSI and word to the un-wise. DO NOT BUY IT!!!! what a peice of you know what... So I am looking at an air compressor with a moisture trap, shut off, guage, and I noticed that there ar 1/5 HP, 1/8th HP, 1/4 HP ect. What the hell am I looking for when it comes to an air compressor. What PSI limits, what is the deal with oil and non oil, ect. Just someone tell me what I am looking for in a compressor so I get the right one for the job.
Are any of these decent
http://cgi.ebay.com/115V-40PSI-Mini-Airbrush-Compressor-Single-Action-Gun_W0QQitemZ160028086353QQihZ006QQcategoryZ134557QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-5-HP-AIRBRUSH-MINI-AIR-BRUSH-COMPRESSOR-PAINTING-ART_W0QQitemZ250027739155QQihZ015QQcategoryZ28111QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Puma-1-8-HP-Air-Brush-Compressor-w-Water-Trap-Airbrush_W0QQitemZ130025273948QQihZ003QQcategoryZ28111QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/AirBrush-City-Airbrush-and-Compressor-Works-great_W0QQitemZ290026318980QQihZ019QQcategoryZ28111QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Paasche-VL-Airbrush-Kit-with-Compressor-and-DVD_W0QQitemZ130024268626QQihZ003QQcategoryZ28111QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-AIRBRUSH-COMPRESSOR-KIT-WITH-DUAL-ACTION-AIRBRUSH_W0QQitemZ170027632369QQihZ007QQcategoryZ28111QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-8-HP-OILLESS-AIRBRUSH-COMPRESSOR-WITH-REGULATO-52855_W0QQitemZ260029577351QQihZ016QQcategoryZ22662QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[PyroMike]

I would say get a compressor with a 2 gallon tank and 1/2 hp. It is small so it will fit in an apartment. The difference between a compressor with oil and no oil is the noise level. Oil compressors tend to run quieter, but will require you to check the oil every now and then; I also think they last longer then an oil-less compressor. Oil-less compressors are easy to maintain, but they tend to be on the lauder side. Look for one the can deliver around 20psi up to 60psi (you shouldn’t need to go over 50psi) or you could get one that will go up to around 100psi (you will find other uses for it also). You want a compressor with a tank, because without one your compressor can burn up from running constantly.

[joeofcampbell]

*I use the Testors little hobby compressor and it's been holding up pretty well, even with my "industrial" use on it. Goes up to 40 PSI, and super small--the size of a stack of CD's 6" high. No frills. Relatively quiet.

*I keep two airbrushes--a Paasche VL for general purpose work, and a Paasche VS with a #1 and #3 needle for fine detail work. I like the smaller needles for things like Allclad or lacquer based things. The VL with a #5 needle does large things like glitter, and most lexan paint.

*I stick with Faskolor, but I think I mix my paint a little thicker than most of the pro's do it. I love the water cleanup.

I started with the plaztek Aztek setup too. Ain't nothing wrong with it. :) But the Crabby Economist (that's me) will say this: Higher end airbrushes can take a beating and half. That $70 for a XX brush may seem like a lot, until you realize that most of them can go through a nuclear war and be cleaned up with a little acetone, and used like new.

(I've also been really impressed with some of the higher Aztek brushes--they do offer some innovative features.)

"Only a poor fiddler blames his fiddle."

"Fiddlesticks."

[team3six]

Well, TK & Pyro, I ended up getting and 1/5th Compressor and the Richpen 113c

here is the Compressor I got
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-5-HP-AIRBRUSH-MINI-AIR-BRUSH-COMPRESSOR-PAINTING-ART_W0QQitemZ250027739155QQihZ015QQcategoryZ28111QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
And here is the Gun I got
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&item=220026283953&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

Thanks guys
Now I just need a Hose and a Cleaning pot right? What kind of Hose? and what else you guys recomend?

Note to beginners: Don't buy the testors aircan brush to start with, it will only discourage you.

[team3six]

Pyro, TK I need more help see above post. And TK this pen did not come with any instructions. Do you know where I can purchase, get or find them. I was hopeing you had something you could copy and email to me. and finally,HELP!!!! I am scared to use this and do not know how to use it or it's functions. Master airbrushers, please assist me

[PyroMike]

When you first set up your airbrushing site you will need an, airbrush, air compressor, paint, respirator, moister trap, hobby knife (#11 blade works fine), a well vented room or place to spray, masking tape or liquid mask (not important if making a one color shell), something to clean your brush and thin your paints. If you get those things your first painting experience will be a little better, and more enjoyable.
Now I just need a Hose and a Cleaning pot right? What kind of Hose? and what else you guys recomend?
Well for the house find one that is braded house, and yes the cleaning pot would be a good investment (It will allow you a place to spray cleaner).
:)

[team3six]

Well i got the hose and used the pipe teflon on the ends. Everything works good. Leaned how to adjust the PSI and now I need TK for some instructions.

[davecnitrors4]

Read and follow the Fester Project at CFXpaintworks.com....good info.

[PyroMike]

Read and follow the Fester Project at CFXpaintworks.com....good info.
I second that. :)
Also if you need to ask a question about a certian step you can post in this thread Project Fester (support thread) (http://www.cfxpaintworks.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=555)

[team3six]

Thanks guys, that is some very cool work. This is an awsome idea to teaching someone how to paint. and I intend on doing the homework. Thanks again

[davecnitrors4]

I just want to say that airbrushing is like a bad habit....you pick it up and want to keep on doing it....the problem is, the darn thing is quite technical. You can't just dump Faskolor in the brush and start dropping fine fades and shadows like the guys who have taken the time to understand the process behind the tool.

The Fester project gets right into the "homework" of understanding how the thinning of the paint and the chages in air pressure influence the outcome of the spray pattern. This is prolly the most important aspect of achieving the results you have pictured in your head for your project. Without that understanding, all of your prep time on the body will be wasted when you start blobbing and sputtering paint all over the shell.

Because I couldn't get good results, I was quick to think that I bought a poor airbrush because I jumped into painting before I really tried to learn the basics of thinning and pressure. Airbrushed aren't simple things. And like being back in school, "homework" and practice aren't fun. We want the finished product, and we want it immediately. Sorry, but the only place "perfect" comes before "practice" is in the dictionary.

I applaud the staff at CFX for putting the Fester Project out there, and for the guys at Parma for sponsoring it. It's great info for newbie artists (me). I expect my next works to be improved because of the exercises and techniques shown there.

Thanks to all of the shooterz at CFX!

DaveC

[team3six]

Yeah, I want to get this out there because I think it deserves a place in XRC awards. I honestly think that the websites "Fester" Thread should qualify for an XRC award. It is some really great work and by far the best explination on the process that far exceeds anything I have seen

[tkcustoms]

Well i got the hose and used the pipe teflon on the ends. Everything works good. Leaned how to adjust the PSI and now I need TK for some instructions.

Check your PM's

[team3six]

Todd, got your message. Message me back for my email addy. Mike the brake fluid worked great. thanks you saved my Hummer body! and I have an idea that has been working for me as far as seperating equal amounts of fluid. I picked up a turkey injector. It is a real needle in all reality but much bigger for injecting flavor into the bird. Basically it has marks on the side of the needle so you can acurately measure the amount of water, alcohol and paint you are using for your paint recipe. It costs a whole $3.00 so I think it was well worth it. And finally that Richpen 113c is the shiznitz. A very very good airbrush. Thanks for helping with everything, well I am finished with part 1 of the fester project. On to my next lesson

[PyroMike]

Glad the brake fluid worked out for ya. Can't wait to see the finnished product. :)

[team3six]

Well, Like TK said, it is a tought project for a first one. so I decided to put it off and work on another project. So far so good. Just taking my time and we shall see what comes out.

[Pig]

I know it's slightly off topic and two weeks over due, but thanks for the kind words on the Project Fester. Sadly, Fester was unable to dedicate the required time for this project due to his personal and professional commitments. There are no hard feelings towards Fester, and I hope the continuance of the thread will help him in the future when he has the time for airbrushing.

We're still in the selection process of finding a replacement, but the thread will continue! Through this thread, we hope to enlighten and encourage current and future airbrush artists. Stay tuned, and we hope our classes will help everyone become better painters.