Air Brush Painting

[dsilver668]

Hey Everyone I just got my pictures up for this months competition. Go easy on me.. :D

Ok some Questions:
1. Cob Webs? I forget what causes them and how to treat it. Any input would be great.

2. Shading? I have a Pasche VL and I throw in a number 1. I am trying to get that fine automization, so I wasn't sure how much you cut the paint, and at what presure you shoot at.
Specificly I shoot Fastkolor and Pectra acrylic when I can or Pectra / Spaztix when I can't.

I know each one is different but if everyone shoots a between 12 and 15 PSI and I am shooting at 30 PSI I can make some changes.
:D

[Dave]

Hey Everyone I just got my pictures up for this months competition. Go easy on me.. :D

Ok some Questions:
1. Cob Webs? I forget what causes them and how to treat it. Any input would be great.

2. Shading? I have a Pasche VL and I throw in a number 1. I am trying to get that fine automization, so I wasn't sure how much you cut the paint, and at what presure you shoot at.
Specificly I shoot Fastkolor and Pectra acrylic when I can or Pectra / Spaztix when I can't.

I know each one is different but if everyone shoots a between 12 and 15 PSI and I am shooting at 30 PSI I can make some changes.
:D

Usually when you get the cobweb effect it's because the paint is drying before it hits the body. Or because the paint it too thick. To avoid this thin down the paints a little bit. If you still get cobwebs, you can remove them using a piece of foam that comes with most ESC's. It's soft enough to not ruin your paint, but will grab the cobwebs. Just make sure you let the paint that is on the body dry to the touch and don't use a lot of force. Let the foam do the work for you.

The VL is a siphon feed airbrush, so you'll need to use higher air pressures to get the paint to flow nicely. Probably around 25+ especially if you are using thicker paints such as acrylics. Lacquer paints won't need as high a setting and should flow nicely around 15-20 psi. If you had a gravity fed airbrush you would be able to thin down your paints even more and use lower pressures to get really fine lines. Some people don't suggest thinning the Faskolor or other acrylic based paints, but I don't really use them. I prefer lacquer based myself. They tend to spray smoother and finer, but don't smell too good and take more clean up time. If you only use acrylic based paints, you'll definitely need higher air pressures, but I wouldn't expect to get the fine sprays you see from lacquer based paints. I personally have yet to see acrylics spray as nice as lacquers. Maybe somebody more familiar with acrylic based paints can give you some advice on thinning them.

Good luck and let us know if you get the results you are looking for.

[dsilver668]

Cool thanks Dave.
I will head home and try it out.
I don't mind laq but it does smell a bit, and working in the kitchen you walk outta there like you just had a few to many drinks even with the door open and a giant fan going..
I know there is a siphon cup. I will try lines with thinned laqure and lower air pressure. It is the little things as I am still learning the best setup for my rig. :D

[HRDforever]

do you mean cobwebs forming around you when your painting?

[dsilver668]

Yup as I am airbrushing it seems to also make cob webs around where the air is running up the sides of the body.

[ofnaDOMINATION!]

is airbrushing easy to learn?

[dsilver668]

Yes and no..
Painting on a ruff poris surface like paper or canvese give you a good starting point. Many collages have clases.
When you move to lexan or cars, motorcycles, you are painting a slick surface so the paint takes differently.
I think once you have a standard system that you use, and get used to your eqipment it is practice practice. I have a lot of respect for the painters out there. It isn't easy..

[HRDforever]

Yup as I am airbrushing it seems to also make cob webs around where the air is running up the sides of the body.
i remember, it happened alot with testors paint...the one that realy smells...so i use acrylic now...it works great in my badger 150

[HRDforever]

Yes and no..
Painting on a ruff poris surface like paper or canvese give you a good starting point. Many collages have clases.
When you move to lexan or cars, motorcycles, you are painting a slick surface so the paint takes differently.
I think once you have a standard system that you use, and get used to your eqipment it is practice practice. I have a lot of respect for the painters out there. It isn't easy..
not realy...painting on a slick surface can be easy, you just lay down thin coats...

[dsilver668]

Yup I had the issue with Pectra. I was also spraying Fastkolor and didn't have nay issues.

[ofnaDOMINATION!]

hmm. thanks, ill need an airbrush now.

[HRDforever]

testors are good beiner models, the external mix ones...

[Pig]

I know it’s a month past, but this is a topic that needs a bump. Here’s my take on it

1. Cobwebs: I’ve seen cobwebs no lacquers as well as acrylics. The common causes I’ve heard are paint too thick, pressure too high, paint built up on tip assembly, and static build-up. I thin my paints, regardless of make, to the consistency I need for good control. I also adjust my air pressure to match my paint so that I get a good consistent paint spray, and I try to keep my brush spotless. This leaves static. I have a cheap spray bottle I use filled with tap water. I mist a light coat or two of water onto the outside of the body to eliminate the static build-up. Whether or not it works, I don’t have cobwebs any more. If you do get cobwebs, Dave’s advice is the best I’ve found.

2. Fades: Fades aren’t as tough as people think they are. Just keep the coats light, allow good drying time between coats, and take your time. Putting a sheet of plain white paper on the outside of the body will help create a contrast to see how light your coats are and let you know how your fades will turn out.

3. Air Pressure: This is a common point of contention between painters. The best painter I know sprays detail lines on RC bodies at 60 psi using a gravity fed brush. Others like to drop the pressure down to 12-15 psi, depending on paint and brush type. Bottom line, practice with each color to see what works best…keep notes. Proper thinning helps. Air pressure is always related to thinning, see thinning below.

4. Thinning: I thin my paints, regardless of make, to match the control I want. The general consistency I go for is milk, and I adjust further from there. People always want to know what to thin acrylics with. I recommend rubbing alcohol (isopropyl type found at most grocery stores and pharmacies). It has a lower surface tension than water so it’ll spray smoother, dry faster, and is less likely to bead on lexan and be pushed around by the spray. For siphon feed brushes, surface tension of your suspension medium can make or break you. You can also use Windex, and the blue dye will not interact with your paints. In fact, it makes whites come out a bit brighter and whiter. Using alcohol to thin will help with doing detail work where the brush is closer to the lexan, the paint is less likely to be moved about because it dries faster. I recommend thinning with alcohol over Windex to lessen the chance of foam forming when back flushing the brush to clear it.

5. Siphon vs. Gravity Feed: Some will say that gravity fed gives you better control and finer detail and siphon is only good for large area coverage. I know of a few painters who create jaw dropping art on a shell and use nothing but a siphon feed brush. It’s all about personal preference and practice. Use what you have, and practice at it, then practice some more. You’ll only improve through use and practice.

6. Acrylic or Lacquer: This is another personal preference. Lacquers spray very nice…in general, much better than acrylics. But, using proper techniques and practice, acrylics will spray just as well as lacquers. Acrylics won’t give you the light headedness like lacquers and are considered a bit more home friendly. It all comes down to personal preference and practice. It’s the “run what ya’ brung” principle, use what you have and practice using it.

7. Notes: I strongly recommend beginner and intermediate painters take copious notes. They only take a second to write and pay huge dividends. I keep a large binder for my notes. I write down what paint I used, how much it was thinned, the air pressure, spray pattern, and rate it from 1-10 on control (10 being best). This lets me dial in everything much quicker next time I use that particular paint.

I also keep a color chart made of transparency sheets. I took a transparency sheet, sprayed one side with a nice even coat of paint. Once dry, I section off the sheet into 8 equal sized squares. Using low-tack masking tape, I mask off each section. Next, I spray a different color in each square to back my original color. On the front, I mark what primary color was used and mark the backing color in each square. It’s a handy little tool to have when designing to see what effects and colors you want t use.

8. Safety: This is a topic that’s rarely, if ever, broached. Safety takes precedence over every phase of painting. When you’re spraying, you’re releasing paint pigments into the air. These can collect in your lungs and build up quickly. Paint particulates from the paint we use are non-biodegradable, so the body can’t break it down. Instead, the body covers those paint particles with scar tissue (not a good thing). This leads to decreased air capacity in your lungs (a really bad thing). So, protect your lungs. Get a good respirator. Those cheap disposable cotton masks work for Jack and crap…and Jack just left town. Spend the money on a good quality respirator. You can find them using the sales associate at your favorite home improvement or hardware store. You only have two lungs and they’re supposed to last you a lifetime.

Get a good set of goggles to protect your eyes. The first time you notice paint specks on the lenses, the goggles have paid for themselves. Like your lungs, you only have two of them and they have to last you a lifetime.

Ok, I’m off the soapbox. :cool:

[HRDforever]

i use the most expensive resperator that i got from HD...(homedepot) and i know that expensive is not always the best, but it was the best for the money, and it works great! I can not even smell the testors paint...but i normally use acrylic...

i have a badger 150

[nitroracerx7]

Wow!! :eek: I'm impressed! You've condensed a world of fantastic airbrush information into quite a small space. I really like your tips on thinning, and static... I've had problems with cob webs..and wasn't exactly sure why..now I know, thanks! I've always wanted to make a folder -I've been keeping written notes already-..or notebook to put clear (?) pages in that can be painted..so when choosing colors/backers it will be much easier. What type of clear material do you use for this? Thanks again for your most excellent post Pig!
nitroracerx7
I might add...I've been using discarded two liter Coke bottles cut in half for practice, it seems to help.-see pix- The air currents are similar to those found in a body when painting as well.

[Pig]

The transparencies I use are the ones for overhead projectors. They cost a couple of bucks for 50, and they're already punched for notebook use. Polycarbonate paints stick to them quite well.

Excellent use of 2 liter bottles. I like the hand print. :D For your next practice, work on drop shadows and see how overspray can be your friend. If you really want to step up shadows and highlights, pick up a 3 dollar set of french curves. Use them as your paint shields to free mask shapes with. With a little time and effort, you'll find you can do so much more. You've got a great knack for painting and the willingness to practice. Keep it up and challenge yourself using shields to creat shapes.

To use a shield, just put it up next to the body and focus your spray on the shield. The overspray will creat your shape for you. You can create sharper edges by holding the shield closer to the body. It's more or less using a free hand mask that you can move around at will.

Thanks for the kudos, just hope they help out.

[Dave]

Okay, I say for the next paint competition, it's required that you paint on a 2 liter bottle. :D


Those bottles ARE a great (and cheap) way to learn how to paint on lexan. I've done that when I was learning how to paint many years ago.

PIG - That was exactly what this paint forum needed as far as basic tips go. The saftey thing can't be stressed enough. Good job!

Actually I think I'll make a sticky especially for tips like this.

[Pig]

Dave, thanks for the kudos. I added a bit more to the Tips thread. I like the idea of 2 liter bottles for a competition. Use some double sided tape and stick it to a TC, we'll call it the next generation of Scions. :D

Nitro, if you want to see some great paint, take a look at our forum G.O.D. (game organizational director). He can throw down some serious paint. I've seen his work on a couple of RC boards and it's definitely something to strive for.

[nitroracerx7]

Wow! Thanks for the tips.and your kind words of support :p Glad you liked my 'trash painting' bottle trick. I see folks are considering putting them on as bodies? I have a couple of "F-1/Sprint car" looking creations I've used on my Associated RC-18T's, when the racing gets kind of rough in the bashing lot where we play. It's easy to use left over spoilers and such from other cars, slipped into carefully cut slots in the 'bottle body'. Try it..you'll like it! Best of all it's free! Might even make a tree hugger or two happy as well? Less trash in the dump...or it's at least worn down a lot more before getting there...
Oh yes...shadows... :eek: I've just finished reading Radu Vero's book..and have too much information on shields and such at present (Ha!) I do have several french curves on hand, as well as other templates to use as shields. I'm considering using old computer discs broken in half as semi circle shields..as they can easily be wiped off between shots...and they's round! most likely will fit better in a body..and not gouge other graphics -see hood of my wife's 'Butterfly Blue' PT Cruiser for just such a gouge... :eek: Shadows are definitely my next subject of study with an airbrush..as they really will make..or break..a killer job, no matter how many hours -days!- you've invested in it.
Overspray is my bane at present. Will you be willing to help negotiate a truce? I simply spaz..and wreck it each and every time I try. I'm now using a Paasche VL.. I try to keep -Faskolor/acrylic- paint as thin as possible, as to reduce my pressure...but if I take it too far..the surface tension makes it bead up!! -distilled water for thinner-, would a touch of Windex or alcohol help? Much suffering lies ahead I fear...
Oh! I've just thought of something you may find useful...I use an oral syringe -like for giving kids nasty tasting meds with- filled with distilled water to completely flush my brush out very well with between colors -see pic- . I've also included a couple of pix of wrecked shadows..and the 'guide' I had drawn on the mask to help! Geeezzz! I had a map and blew it... :o
Thanks again for everything!
nitroracerx7

[Dave]

The oral syringe sounds like it works. I use those squeeze bottles you get at the beauty supply store. The ones with the tapered tip. They're easy to fill and you just need to squeeze them to flush out your airbrush while pulling the trigger back. It uses less cleaning fluid and is quicker than just putting a bottle of cleaner on there and spraying like normal paint.

[Pig]

Nitro, try using just rubbing alcohol (isopropyl type) instead of distilled water. You'll find that it's possible to spray down to 12 psi with a gravity fed. I can spray down to about 15 psi with a badger 155 (siphon feed).

[nitroracerx7]

I cain dew eeet!! That sounds like a winning combo to me. I'm using a siphon feed -Paasche VL- and generally running 40 psi. The wind in a body at that pressure is like a hurricane at times. Not easy to maintain control like that. I'm guessing 91% alcohol will be Okay straight from the bottle? This may be dumb..but what is the difference between rubbing, and denatured, alcohol? Would denatured be best? Just curious..lots of different cans to choose from out in the shop... Oh! I also wanted to let you know the idea of taping a contrasting colored piece of paper behind the body you're painting is a huge help! It's easy to put too much otherwise..and too much rarely ever is better.
nx7

[Pig]

Denatured alcohol is a wood alcohol. It's a bit more caustic, will send you high as a kite, and evaporates completely without leaving a residue behind. Isopropyl contains mostly water and dries leaving a film behind.

When using isopropyl alcohol with paints, there's no worry about the residue as the paint absorbs it with no effect. Because it's mostly water, it mixes well with acrylic paints. Just mix right from the plastic bottle, no need to add anything else to it.

I've heard of people using denatured alcohol to thin acrylic paints, but haven't used it myself. I usually stick with isopropyl becuase it's cheaper and easier to get my hands on. It has a thousand and one uses in RC, but then again so does denatured alcohol.

Paasche makes some great brushes. A great painter I know who does real fire that'll make you wet your pants uses a Paasche. Best advice to give you with it is to practice at different consistencies to see what sprays the best at different air pressures. You should be able to spray a fairly fine line around 20-25 psi. <hint>

[nitroracerx7]

Thanks! Just what I needed to know. I don't mind the fumes..as I always wear the best respirator I can find -with new cartridges/pre filters regularly. I usually use MEK for final clean up<-killer fume city!* I also have a two ton fan sucking the air out of my paint area in the shop like a tornado -not THAT hard..but enough- :)
Speaking of tornadoes....that hint you've shared about thinning with isopropyl alcohol -with water pre mixed at the plant- seems like the trick I've been needing..as surface tension<- REAL pain!*...and the terrible wind at 40+ psi, in a body...has caused more chaos than good in my attempts at anything remotely delicate with acrylics. I have been lucky a time or two by mixing very small quantities of Faskolor paint -a little beyond milk...and getting my pressure way down -15 psi- for the detail on the butterfly wings on my wife's PT Cruiser body. I've used shields for those as well...only, I 'skipped' the paint off of the shield..as to make the shot more delicate..and to partially dry before reaching the body for that 'velvet' effect she wished for on her car's graphics.
Why do I continue ot use a paint type that seems so difficult? Because it will NOT crash out. I've seen that Orange "FnF Supra" of my son's almost torn in half :eek: and not a flake of paint lost. That's why. Love it much, I do! I know Lacquers are a LOT easier...but they just will not hold up well to abuse...er...use, yeah that's it. :p We don't like 'trailer queens around here....all our 'girls' are 'party girls'! As to say...play as hard as ever..and look cool while it lasts. Have fun! That's the name of the game anyway...right!?
Thanks again,
nx7

[team3six]

Looking for someone who can paint me this body in a Crowd pleazer 2.0 for the LST

[Empireracing]

try franks bodies he does good work

[team3six]

well, I am hopeing someone here can do it, I tryed the guy who originally painted it, but he has not responded to emails.

[Pig]

to be honest, it doesn't look all that hard to do. There's very little freehand work in it and that isn't the hottest looking freehand work I've seen. I think you can do it with very little effort.

However, if you insist on someone doing it for you, drop a line to tkcustoms. You'll pay good money for it, but you'll get something a lot better than that. You could also ask nitroracerx7. He's got the skills to do something like that (but better) and it'd be cheaper. The tough part is convincing him to have faith in his skills. ;)

[team3six]

Look, here's the bottom line. With all respect to you Pig! I dont have the time or the patience to spend on painting my own body which might I add I am very much quite capable of doing without a problem. Sometimes some people would rather pay someone to do it for them so they dont have to deal with the hassle of doing it themselves. So again. If there is someone here on the XRC forum that can airbrush paint and shade. Please contact me so I can get an Idea how much this may cost. I would like to do a set of bodies like this for several RC's

[tkcustoms]

Look, here's the bottom line. With all respect to you Pig! I dont have the time or the patience to spend on painting my own body which might I add I am very much quite capable of doing without a problem. Sometimes some people would rather pay someone to do it for them so they dont have to deal with the hassle of doing it themselves. So again. If there is someone here on the XRC forum that can airbrush paint and shade. Please contact me so I can get an Idea how much this may cost. I would like to do a set of bodies like this for several RC's

I sent you a PM.

[nitroracerx7]

to be honest, it doesn't look all that hard to do. There's very little freehand work in it and that isn't the hottest looking freehand work I've seen. I think you can do it with very little effort.

However, if you insist on someone doing it for you, drop a line to tkcustoms. You'll pay good money for it, but you'll get something a lot better than that. You could also ask nitroracerx7. He's got the skills to do something like that (but better) and it'd be cheaper. The tough part is convincing him to have faith in his skills. ;)

I'm not worthy!! :eek: Thank you for your kind compliments..and especially for considering me to do some paint work for you, I'm most grateful. I could possibly get close..but some of that looks a little advanced for me still. Maybe e mail me sometime(?), when I have more skills..and fewer mistake fixing tricks -that'll be the day, Ha!-. It could happen...I'm way out of practice as well..it's been months since I've painted, or driven, any of our rides. -LHS with track closed suddenly- I do happen to still have a host of clean, used, 2 liter coke bottles in need of a little blingage, before finding their final resting place at the local dump. Hopefully I'll learn a thing or three while working with them... :)
Thanks again,
nx7

[Pig]

nx7, I still think you could do it. It's really a matter of masking. The only free hand work is the streaking effect. That's easy enough to do using dagger strokes and either brown with a touch of orange mixed in or transparent yellow with some red/brown dagger strokes over then fade from orange to yellow. Not too much technical expertise needed.

Your biggest problem is your lack of self confidence. Seeing what you've done on soda bottles, you more than have the skill to do something like that. Take the step forward, break down the paint job inch by inch, and recreate it with your own touches added to it. You can dew-eet!!

[team3six]

nx7, I still think you could do it. It's really a matter of masking. The only free hand work is the streaking effect. That's easy enough to do using dagger strokes and either brown with a touch of orange mixed in or transparent yellow with some red/brown dagger strokes over then fade from orange to yellow. Not too much technical expertise needed.

Your biggest problem is your lack of self confidence. Seeing what you've done on soda bottles, you more than have the skill to do something like that. Take the step forward, break down the paint job inch by inch, and recreate it with your own touches added to it. You can dew-eet!!
Hey pig? can we see your work?

[Pig]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/942577/Image9.jpg

my first attempt at drips
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/942577/000_0090.jpg

[Pig]

first time using an airbrush on RC and second time doing characters
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/942577/Dscf0086.jpg

quick job for a buddy (all paint)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a149/Piggy89373/finish.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a149/Piggy89373/finish2c.jpg

I originally got an airbrush to paint fishing lures and plastic static models. I don't have any pics of those yet. Since I've never had an art class, I'm admittedly a hack with great notes. Unlike you, I have little artistic skill. But, thanks to artistic folks who post their work and using my notes, I'm able to produce some ok stuff.

[Dave]

Nice work PIG.

By the way, I use denatured alcohol with Faskolor paints. It works really well.

[Pig]

thanks Dave. Using denatured alcohol, how does that affect the stink factor? Using isopropyl has little to no effect on the stink factor.

[nitroracerx7]

thanks Dave. Using denatured alcohol, how does that affect the stink factor? Using isopropyl has little to no effect on the stink factor.

If you can smell it...your respirator isn't fitting correctly!! :eek:
I've a new trick to share with Y'all...ô¿ô= When next trying to glue a picture inside of a body, try using Faskoat for the glue. Better yet, spray a medium coat of Fasflip (your choice) on the picture before sliding it into place -see pix of Ms HIN on the 911 hood- I've used jade flip for glue here. I've seen this girl take several serious high speed curb/T-Bone beatings...and she hasn't crashed out yet! Try it....you'll like it :cool:
nx7

[Pig]

nx7, the stink factor I was referring to wasn't what I could smell, it's what everyone else in my house smells. I have my paint booth in the basement. As a consequence of temperatures below freezing, my basement doesn't have the best ventilation and the smell escapes out to other parts of the house. After repeated admonishments from the wife-unit, I switched to acrylic paints.

[Dave]

thanks Dave. Using denatured alcohol, how does that affect the stink factor? Using isopropyl has little to no effect on the stink factor.

It doesn't affect the smell at all. It's not like I'm putting a whole lot in there anyway. Plus like nitroracerx7 said, If you're wearing a respirator, you shouldn't smell it much anyway. :)

[Dave]

nx7, the stink factor I was referring to wasn't what I could smell, it's what everyone else in my house smells. I have my paint booth in the basement. As a consequence of temperatures below freezing, my basement doesn't have the best ventilation and the smell escapes out to other parts of the house. After repeated admonishments from the wife-unit, I switched to acrylic paints.

As for other family members. The guys here at the office haven't complained about the smell. When i was using lacquer based paints, they were complaining all the time. So, I don't think you'll have a problem with your wife.

[Pig]

Thanks for the info. I'll give it a shot. BTW, thanks for coming over to CFX. I was hoping you'd make it.